General Zone 1 Question... well, more a comment really...

[RichieG]

Actually, it's not a question at all really...

I was just thinking the other day that if Paddington is two stations, Hammersmith is two stations, and (more importantly) Bank and Monument are two stations (despite being linked on The Map), it would make things a bit more interesting if on a Zone 1 Challenge you included the DLR...

Given that there are only two DLR stations in Zone 1, Bank (which isn't a problem as the station, with the same name, is served by Tube) and Tower Gateway. It is the latter that would cause the interest here because although it is linked on The Map to Tower Hill, it would be classed a separate station, would it not, and therefore have to be visited by either leaving or arriving on a train which would mean that you would either HAVE to double back between there and Shadwell, or change at Shadwell for Bank (or the other way around, leave Bank on the DLR to Shadwell to return to Tower Gateway and subsequently to Tower Hill).

Just a thought...

[palkanetoijala31]

Actually, it's not a question at all really...

I was just thinking the other day that if Paddington is two stations, Hammersmith is two stations, and (more importantly) Bank and Monument are two stations (despite being linked on The Map), it would make things a bit more interesting if on a Zone 1 Challenge you included the DLR...

Given that there are only two DLR stations in Zone 1, Bank (which isn't a problem as the station, with the same name, is served by Tube) and Tower Gateway. It is the latter that would cause the interest here because although it is linked on The Map to Tower Hill, it would be classed a separate station, would it not, and therefore have to be visited by either leaving or arriving on a train which would mean that you would either HAVE to double back between there and Shadwell, or change at Shadwell for Bank (or the other way around, leave Bank on the DLR to Shadwell to return to Tower Gateway and subsequently to Tower Hill).

Just a thought...

leave it until after zone 1 day has passed will you please.

[tubeguru]

I don't think Andi means to sound as rude as he did there ...

[greatkingrat]

I don't think the Zone 1 challenge should be changed. However it might be interesting to try a R15 once with DLR stations included in the hat?

[palkanetoijala31]

sorry richie i do realise it was slightly rude it was late and i was thinking oh no i got to change the rules again.

[RichieG]

Don't worry, I wasn't saying that it sould be a general thing and especially not for this coming Friday! This was more a theoretical comment really. Incidentally, I didn't think you were being rude at all...

[dudey]

I do like the idea of throwing the Z1-2 DLR stations into the hat for R15. Presuming we decide to continue the R15 championship in the same form as this last year (and with people actually being aware of it from the beginning ), then perhaps the opening round in around July could be a special "+DLR" round. Saying that we still also need to arrange a purely DLR event this summer so we can all get a go at this new configuration. Anyone up for that sometime in June?

[jamesthegill]

How about Friday July 31st for the DLR event? Exactly two years on from the last one.

[Mitchell&BrownLook]

Saw this and couldn't turn down the challenge despite having never taken part in a Random 15 event. So after some scribblings on a virtual tube map, I'm going to go with the following route, which presumes that like the GWR rules you must leave Bow Church by the DLR and not run to Bow Church and also that the whole network is running as per timetable.

1) Bow Church; DLR to
2) Island Gardens; double back to Canary Wharf, Jubilee then Northern line to collect,
3) Borough, then
4) Oval. Double back to Elephant & Castle then ride right up to
5) Kilburn Park. Double back again to Paddington and pass through
6) Bayswater, to change at Earl's Court to
7) West Kensington. Onto
Hammersmith, where hopefully a train will be waiting to send me onto
9) Great Portland Street then
10) Whitechapel. Turn around on the District to tick off
11) Cannon Street,
12) Temple and
13) South Kensington. Finally hit the Piccadilly north to visit
14) Knightsbridge and
15) Caledonian Road.

Does this win me any awards that are worth putting to my name?

[joy54]

Will the addition of DLR stations be likely to lengthen the challenge?

[joy54]

I suppose until now the R15 hasn't really had any stations to pick from in the South East.

So now you have the possibility of having 4 stations all at the extremes of the Zone 2 network at opposite ends from each other.

In Matt's example, we have Kilburn Park (North West), Island Gardens (South East), Hammersmith (South West) and Bow Road (North East).

This is not far away from the worst possible scenario, being Kensal Green (North West), Lewisham (South East), East Putney (South West) and Pudding Mill Lane (North East).

I reckon this could extend the challenge on a regular basis to 4 hours if they were included.

[mps247]

Very tricky, with stations in the corners of the map. Here is what I would try:

1. Bow Church to Cutty Sark (DLR) calling at Island Gardens
2. Cutty Sark to Canada Water (Bus no. 188/199)
3. Canada Water to London Bridge (Jubilee line)
4. London Bridge to Oval (Northern line) calling at Borough
5. Oval to Vauxhall (run)
6. Vauxhall to Green Park (Victoria line)
7. Green Park to Earl's Court (Piccadilly line) calling at Knightsbridge and South Kensington
8. Earl's Court to Hammersmith (District) (District line) calling at West Kensington
9. Hammersmith (District) to Hammersmith (Hammersmith & City) (run)
10. Hammersmith (Hammersmith & City) to Goldhawk Road (Hammersmith & City line)
11. Goldhawk Road to Bayswater (Bus no. 94)
12. Bayswater to Paddington (Bakerloo) (Circle/District lines)
13. Paddington (Bakerloo) to Kilburn Park (Bakerloo line)
14. Kilburn Park to Regent's Park (Bakerloo line)
15. Regent's Park to Great Portland Street (run)
16. Great Portland Street to King's Cross St. Pancras (Circle/Hammersmith & City/Metropolitan lines)
17. King's Cross St. Pancras to Caledonian Road (Piccadilly line)
18. Caledonian Road to Holborn (Piccadilly line)
19. Holborn to Temple (run)
20. Temple to Whitechapel (District line) calling at Cannon Street

I think it would take well over 4 hours. I think if we are to add DLR stations to this challenge, why not go the whole way and include Overground stations too? I wouldn't replace the standard R15 with this though, purely because it would take much longer.

[Edgemaster]

At first NR in sounded good, but then looking at that list...

I'm just looking at the knotted network of lines to the SE (although mostly in Z3-6) on the full connections map.

[mps247]

It's kinda stopped being a tube challenge If you went for just LO stations I guess it would be a little less daunting

Yes, I thought it might turn out to be something like that with National Rail stations included. I would consider any station where you didn't actually physically need to leave the station in order to get from the underground to the mainline to be the same station. This would mean Waterloo and London Waterloo would be the same station, and London Waterloo East would count at Southwark (is there also a connection from Waterloo?). This would mean that London Paddington, Paddington (Hammersmith & City) and Paddington (Bakerloo) become the same station...

... it gets far too complicated...

Additionally, as a lot of rail journeys aren't turn-up-and-go, it will no doubt add a great amount to the total time required.

The reason why I thought including the Overground routes would be a good idea is because we use them in the R15 anyway in an attempt to save time, even though they really aren't served by turn-up-and-go trains. Also, a good number of the stations are located near underground stops, which makes them a little easier to put into a route. Of course, those in Hackney are an exception, together with Clapham Junction (although the no. 37 from East Putney would take you there). The DLR stations are a lot more isolated than those on the Overground, so I don't think it would add too much to the time.

[Mitchell&BrownLook]

I'll just mix things up a little here, hopefully not causing upset!

I quite like your definition Hassan, however one example that I'm unsure of with your wording is Kings Cross. Even with your definition I'd have thought that it is by nature 3 stations as they have 3 separate names, (2 NR and 1 LU) although you could if you wanted add Kings Cross Thameslink, which I believe certainly was called by that separate name, though this may have changed with the recent developments at St Pancras. Even without the Thameslink platforms being called such, the 3 are quite obviously independent of each other apart from how the Underground station acts as means of getting from one to the other.

Therefore should the definition go to more of a GWR and Hassan blend whereby if the two modes are "within the same building (or structure) yet have separate platforms they count as the same station, however if they do not share the same building they are counted separately." This may mean that some places become independent, such as Finsbury Park or Brixton, however it does also prevent the 3 independent Paddington's suddenly becoming one, which to me at least rather goes against the spirit of tube challenging.

My only reasoning for this is it (generally) splits up the various modes, but excludes what could be the pedantic differences such as Greenwich x2, Lewisham x2 and when it re-opens Canada Water x2.