Last post wins - LOCKED

[Rhys1995]

Ah!

[tractakid]

And I then listed some songs you could listen to, in order to help your understanding in this matter.

There are other people reading this apart from you. I thought they might be interested too.

Yeah, OK, but that wasn't my interpretation. I interpreted it as being a direct response to the quoted message. Of course others can read it, but it was intended primarily at me.

Anyway, i'm still confused, and I dont thinkthere is a satisfactory answer to my problem.

[tubeguru]

I was doing some more thinking about this today, and I think it has to do with the way the rhythm of the music flows.

If you listen to "Baby's In Black" by the Beatles, it is definitely a 3/4 song. The accent is very definitely on every third beat.

If you listen to "Unchained Melody", you can definitely detect the accent on every sixth beat. So whilst I suppose you could say at UM might be performed in 3/4, you would be accenting the wrong beats and it would have a completely different feel to it. Try listening to UM and imagine putting the accent on every third beat, paying attention to the guitar and words. You'd be putting in an accent far too many times, and it would sound "jerky". This compares directly with BIB, where there is a clear accent every third beat.

I can't really think of a way of explaining it any more clearly.

[tractakid]

I was doing some more thinking about this today, and I think it has to do with the way the rhythm of the music flows.

If you listen to "Baby's In Black" by the Beatles, it is definitely a 3/4 song. The accent is very definitely on every third beat.

If you listen to "Unchained Melody", you can definitely detect the accent on every sixth beat. So whilst I suppose you could say at UM might be performed in 3/4, you would be accenting the wrong beats and it would have a completely different feel to it. Try listening to UM and imagine putting the accent on every third beat, paying attention to the guitar and words. You'd be putting in an accent far too many times, and it would sound "jerky". This compares directly with BIB, where there is a clear accent every third beat.

I can't really think of a way of explaining it any more clearly.

I heard Baby's in Black as 6/8 on first listening. (duple compound, 2/4 with triplets) I googled the sheet music and that said it was in 12/8 (quadruple compound- 4/4 with triplets) with a 6/8 bar inserted every now and then.

As for Unchained Melody, I was convinced it was 6/8, in agreement with you. Then I looked that up and it's also in 12/8.

*confused*

I also don't really get the difference between 4/4, 2/2, 2/4, they're all just too similar to each warrant existence!

Then when you look at odd time signatures, it all just breaks down into groupings of 2 and 3. 5/4 is 3+2 or 2+3. 7/8 is 4+3 or 3+4- then do you break the 4s into 2s?

[Rhys1995]

.

[tractakid]

For anyone musical wanting a laugh, check out ExpetVillage's Austin McBride on YouTube!

[tubeguru]

I heard Baby's in Black as 6/8 on first listening. (duple compound, 2/4 with triplets) I googled the sheet music and that said it was in 12/8 (quadruple compound- 4/4 with triplets) with a 6/8 bar inserted every now and then.

As for Unchained Melody, I was convinced it was 6/8, in agreement with you. Then I looked that up and it's also in 12/8.

*confused*

I also don't really get the difference between 4/4, 2/2, 2/4, they're all just too similar to each warrant existence!

Then when you look at odd time signatures, it all just breaks down into groupings of 2 and 3. 5/4 is 3+2 or 2+3. 7/8 is 4+3 or 3+4- then do you break the 4s into 2s?

There is an important point here - regardless of what time signature someone writes on the score, different people will HEAR it differently. I just ran through Unchained Melody in my head in 12/8, and I can see where people are coming from with that. 12/8 ties in nicely with the lyrics, but the music suggests 6/8.

I searched the internet and found several sites, all of which quoted it in different time signatures! I'm not even sure that the writer of a song can pin it down to a fixed time signature sometimes, especially when it's possible to perform the song in either time signature, giving it a slightly different sound each time.

Baby's in Black in 12/8 ... *runs through it in head* OK, this works too if you break it down into four lots of 3/4 before you "start again", but once again I can also hear it in 6/8. It's another example of a case where it doesn't really matter which time signature it's in, so long as we agree that the top figure has to be a multiple of three, as the song is a waltz.

Conclusion: it's not an exact science - time signatures have some fluidity, with the characteristics of an individual performance contributing to the actual numbers we quote. 3/4, 6/8, 12/8 - it's all much of muchness really, and all depends on where you hear the "divisions" in the music.

As to your other question about compound time signatures ...

7/8 - listen to "Money" by Pink Floyd. You'll also have noticed that "Heart of Glass" by Blondie has a bit in one chorus where it appears to miss a beat - that particular section was in 7/8 too.

With "Money", the actual notes being played in the bass riff suggest a grouping of 3+4, with the first three beats covering the first FOUR notes, and the last four beats covering the final four notes. So we have eight notes in seven beats. The reason for this is that the second and third notes of the bass riff are "half-notes", so they take up the space of one beat.

Of course, some pieces of music, especially classical music, use complex time signatures, with some pieces changing signature every few bars. With no drum beat present it's often difficult to follow the time, so you tend not to think about it when listening. It's only when you look at the score that you realise the composer must have drunk too much coffee before sitting down to write it ...

[moley]

And back to the game.... Who's winning?

[The Raven]

You were! Now I am!

[tubeguru]

And back to the game.... Who's winning?

The game is to be the person with the last post. The content of the thread is neither here nor there.

For example: I like monkeys.

[tractakid]

Take a listen:

musescore.com/user/16264/scores/40847

[tubeguru]

Take a listen:

musescore.com/user/16264/scores/40847

And that demonstrates perfectly how hard it is to follow a piece with multiple time signatures!

If you were listening to that without the score in front of you, you'd have no idea what was going on!

[Going Underground]

Money has a most unusual 7/8 I believe...

[tubeguru]

Money has a most unusual 7/8 I believe...

I already said that! Note though that the instrumental in the middle is in 4/4.

[Going Underground]

Money has a most unusual 7/8 I believe...

I already said that! Note though that the instrumental in the middle is in 4/4.

Apologies just re-read that rather longish post