Zone 1 Challenge Day clarification required

[CrunchySaviour]

Hello, all. Many of the stations on the station starting list for May 20th are inconvenient. That is to say, they are at either end of a run.

Would it be possible to start by running from the first station to another (starting the timer when exiting the ticket barriers perhaps), provided that the station is later arrived at or departed from on a LU train?

Or do we have to start by leaving the start station on a train?

Sorry to complicate things.
-Anthony

[hwolge]

A more general rule question (theoretically also applying to the Guinness Challenge). Is it permissible to do a run to the last station?

It could easily happen in the Zone 1 challenge in Paddington (H&C). Obviously the station would be visited if you embark on a train and it departs, but then again, the "when the doors open at the last station" can hardly be applied...


HÃ¥kan

[lazza747]

No, you can't run TO the last station because the rules state that you must arrive AND/OR depart by train.

You'll be arriving on foot and err, stopping.

You have to arrive at the last station by train.

[hwolge]

I accept your "ruling", since it makes a lot of sense!

However, I stated:

"Obviously the station would be visited if you embark on a train and it departs".

Why is this not so then?

It's just a theoretical question - of no or little importance...

HÃ¥kan

[CrunchySaviour]

That makes sense. What, then, about the first station on the Challenge Day?

Can we start by walking out of the station? When exactly would the timer start?

Alternatively, could we start by ARRIVING at the start station on a train, the timer starting when the doors open? That would facilitate a run direct from the start station, but would be fiddly having to go out on a train, change and come back.

[lazza747]

Surely you can arrive at the last station on foot, but to make it valid - you then have to get on a train which then departs!

The second that it moves - clock that time! - that's when you finished, as you've noe 'done' that station by leaving it.

Good point - I like it.

But what if you run to the station, find yourself on a blinder of a time and then have to wait 5 minutes for a train which you find later has actually dropped you to third or fourth place?

Since you have no idea who has what time, can you afford to run there and wait for a train to depart?

[lazza747]

That makes sense. What, then, about the first station on the Challenge Day?

Can we start by walking out of the station? When exactly would the timer start?

Alternatively, could we start by ARRIVING at the start station on a train, the timer starting when the doors open? That would facilitate a run direct from the start station, but would be fiddly having to go out on a train, change and come back.

The 'timer' starts when the train you get on at the start station moves.

So, let's assume we're all at Lancaster Gate. Everyone electing to take the first westbound train towards Queensway start their watches the second it moves. Ditto people on the eastbound to Marble Arch.

Simple.

[CrunchySaviour]

The 'timer' starts when the train you get on at the start station moves.

So, let's assume we're all at Lancaster Gate. Everyone electing to take the first westbound train towards Queensway start their watches the second it moves. Ditto people on the eastbound to Marble Arch.

Simple.

That's fair enough, because that's how it works. But what if you want to start the challenge with a run, if that's how you planned your route? Is it compulsory to start on a train from the first station, thereby causing you to change your route?

[lazza747]

The 'timer' starts when the train you get on at the start station moves.

So, let's assume we're all at Lancaster Gate. Everyone electing to take the first westbound train towards Queensway start their watches the second it moves. Ditto people on the eastbound to Marble Arch.

Simple.

That's fair enough, because that's how it works. But what if you want to start the challenge with a run, if that's how you planned your route? Is it compulsory to start on a train from the first station, thereby causing you to change your route?

You can't start youre route with a run because you have to arrive or depart on a train. Now you'll say "we arrived on the train we all came down on" but then how do you decide where to start the clock?

Does it have to be this complicated?

[CrunchySaviour]

It doesn't have to be this complicated, I just wanted it to be.

Sorry!

[Ewan]

Okay, the timer would start on the closing of the doors of the tube train., You can be on either side of the doors. If you decide to run on foot, then fine, but...

...as you have not arrived or departed on a train, you cannot 'count' that station as a visit, so must visit it later in your travels. These are the published rules and how I read them.

[hwolge]

I hate to be picky, but I think recent information has added to the confusion here. According to rules on this site, the following applies:

"The choice of departure direction from the start station is entirely your decision and you should not start timing your run until the train you elect to take starts to move away from the station."

and further down (in the footnotes section):

"[1] Olympia trains may be taken to Earl's Court from High Street Kensington"

Until today, my interpretation of the word "direction" from these two pieces of information has been the next train with the desired destination. I.e. starting at High Street Kensington, I can, at my own discretion, wait for a District train via Earl's Court and not be obliged to catch the first train in that general direction, e.g. a counter clockwise Circle train.

However, now Geoff writes http://www.*****.co.uk/tubechalleng ... /index.htm the following: (in the paragraph about Jack Welsby)

"...and note the official departure times of the two starting trains.

thus effectivly eliminating the free choice of "direction" as I first interpreted it...

Which interpretation should apply? Can Geoff and Tubeguru please straighten this issue?

There is also a very minor, indeed, discrepancy on whether door closing or actual departure should apply...

HÃ¥kan

[hwolge]

I do agree I am picky . Just for the sake of argument though - Consider starting at Farringdon. Following options are all more or less likely:

EB:
* First train to Liverpool Street, e.g. a Met
* A Circle train through Tower Hill
* An H&C to Aldgate East
Or WB:
* First train to Great Protland Street, e.g a Met
* A Circle train through Paddington
* An H&C train to Paddington(H&C)

Anyway this could mean SIX DIFFERENT trains. But, yes, I got your clarification . I can pick either one at my own leisure - that's all I need to know.

Thank You,
HÃ¥kan

[G Force]

I have recently heard that Queensway station will be closed for a year from May 8th for lift replacement. This obviously puts a slight spanner in the works for many people's Zone 1 challenge routes!

[hwolge]

Indeed! But it also requires a rule clarification. I assume that the general status of Queensway will fall under Guinness rules about temporarily closed stations. I.e. to count you must pass through it on a train. So far so good. I also assume that Queensway will no longer be in the hat (i.e. being a possible start station) on May 20th.

But how about finishing with Queensway?

I think there are 3 main possibilities to handle this:

1) Exclude Queensway from the Challenge (not very consistent with Guinness general rules though).

2) Rule that Queensway cannot be the last station to visit - rendering the attempt void if you do the 63 other ones first!

3) Rule that Queensway is done when the train passes the station. Should this be the 64th station then exact timing procedures need to be defined. Perhaps stopping the clock when you see the station name when passing? Or when the train stops next (i.e Notting Hill Gate or Lancaster Gate)?

Anyway - which way do Geoff et al want it?

Waiting for clarification,
HÃ¥kan
PS Sorry Geoff, being ultra-picky again...