tubechallenge.com

I'm not calling bulls**t or anything, but I'm amazed by the fastest time of 33:37 for the All Lines Challenge (according to tangy's website)

It's 20% faster than the fifth best - that's like the fifth best full network being 19hr 29 min!

According to the Working Timetables, Farringdon-Barbican-Moorgate-Liverpool Street-Bank-Waterloo-Embankment-Westminster-Green Park-Oxford Circus-Piccadilly Circus-Leicester Square has a running time of 21 1/4 min. That allows 12:22 for interchanges, including changing between platforms and waiting for the next train - 1 min 14 sec on average per interchange.

Is that possible? What am I missing? Is the route above hilariously inefficient?

michael_churchill wrote:I'm not calling bulls**t or anything, but I'm amazed by the fastest time of 33:37 for the All Lines Challenge (according to tangy's website)

It's 20% faster than the fifth best - that's like the fifth best full network being 19hr 29 min!

According to the Working Timetables, Farringdon-Barbican-Moorgate-Liverpool Street-Bank-Waterloo-Embankment-Westminster-Green Park-Oxford Circus-Piccadilly Circus-Leicester Square has a running time of 21 1/4 min. That allows 12:22 for interchanges, including changing between platforms and waiting for the next train - 1 min 14 sec on average per interchange.

Is that possible? What am I missing? Is the route above hilariously inefficient?

I don't know about it but that sounds an like a steep increase in the time.

Sure it is, but it does require a good chunk of luck.

Changes are even more important than in a full network, as they're every station, so the two aren't really comparable

michael_churchill wrote:I'm not calling bulls**t or anything, but I'm amazed by the fastest time of 33:37 for the All Lines Challenge (according to tangy's website)

It's 20% faster than the fifth best - that's like the fifth best full network being 19hr 29 min!

According to the Working Timetables, Farringdon-Barbican-Moorgate-Liverpool Street-Bank-Waterloo-Embankment-Westminster-Green Park-Oxford Circus-Piccadilly Circus-Leicester Square has a running time of 21 1/4 min. That allows 12:22 for interchanges, including changing between platforms and waiting for the next train - 1 min 14 sec on average per interchange.

Is that possible? What am I missing? Is the route above hilariously inefficient?

Remember the WTT shows departure times, not arrival times. So if the running time is shown as 2 minutes that is the time from departing A to departing B. However the time we are interested in is from departing A to arriving B, which will be less as you are not counting the 20-30s dwell time at each station.

greatkingrat wrote:

michael_churchill wrote:I'm not calling bulls**t or anything, but I'm amazed by the fastest time of 33:37 for the All Lines Challenge (according to tangy's website)

It's 20% faster than the fifth best - that's like the fifth best full network being 19hr 29 min!

According to the Working Timetables, Farringdon-Barbican-Moorgate-Liverpool Street-Bank-Waterloo-Embankment-Westminster-Green Park-Oxford Circus-Piccadilly Circus-Leicester Square has a running time of 21 1/4 min. That allows 12:22 for interchanges, including changing between platforms and waiting for the next train - 1 min 14 sec on average per interchange.

Is that possible? What am I missing? Is the route above hilariously inefficient?

Remember the WTT shows departure times, not arrival times. So if the running time is shown as 2 minutes that is the time from departing A to departing B. However the time we are interested in is from departing A to arriving B, which will be less as you are not counting the 20-30s dwell time at each station.

Is that right?

I was looking at the page DISTANCES BETWEEN STATIONS AND APPROXIMATE
INTERMEDIATE RUNNING TIMES rather than the actual timetables and assumed that was the time from departure from one station to arrival at the next.

For one your route I would do the other way so to get Westminster and embankment going down hill. And IIRC they had a large chunk of luck on the day.

michael_churchill wrote:


I was looking at the page DISTANCES BETWEEN STATIONS AND APPROXIMATE
INTERMEDIATE RUNNING TIMES rather than the actual timetables and assumed that was the time from departure from one station to arrival at the next.

I timetabled a whole route doing that once and only realised when I had finished the whole thing and had to do it again

I've written up my logic on my blog. Have I wrong drastically wrong somewhere?

Have you seen http://www.tubeforum.co.uk/forum/viewto ... f=4&t=1025 ?

DrainBrain wrote:Have you seen http://www.tubeforum.co.uk/forum/viewto ... f=4&t=1025 ?

I have now. Very interesting...

I know that veterans are unlikely to give away secrets to a rookie, but I'm really just looking for advice on how good or bad my logic is.

I think the most important knowledge is of which stations provide the most convenient interchanges.

For my first attempt, I'm going to try Farringdon-Barbican-Moorgate-Liverpool Street-Bank-Waterloo-Embankment-Westminster-Green Park-Oxford Circus-Piccadilly Circus-Leicester Square soon and see what happens.

I see that tangy's website still has a list of best times for 12 lines, including the East London Line. Wouldn't that be similar to a 13 line challenge with all Underground + Overground & DLR. It could be just a little detour from Bank to Whitechapel via Shadwell.

michael_churchill wrote:

DrainBrain wrote:Have you seen http://www.tubeforum.co.uk/forum/viewto ... f=4&t=1025 ?

I have now. Very interesting...

I know that veterans are unlikely to give away secrets to a rookie, but I'm really just looking for advice on how good or bad my logic is.

I think the most important knowledge is of which stations provide the most convenient interchanges.

For my first attempt, I'm going to try Farringdon-Barbican-Moorgate-Liverpool Street-Bank-Waterloo-Embankment-Westminster-Green Park-Oxford Circus-Piccadilly Circus-Leicester Square soon and see what happens.

My best advice is do what we had to. Go and walk the stations and research it's the only way.

Good blog title.

I notice that you've not considered doing the Circle at the same time as the District (e.g Waterloo - Westminster - St James's Park - Victoria). I've done a route involving that bit twice and managed a 48:25 (including the horrible, horrible Northern - W&C at Bank, what with that passageway closed). That said, I think some of the routes you've mentioned will beat it.

Two comments I would make:

1) The routes can be done either way round- it may be quicker to do a route one way than the other, depending on connections, stairs, lengths of passageways etc.

To give a non-All Lines example, on the last R15 I had to visit both Edgware Road stations, approaching from the East. I worked out that it would be marginally quicker to do the Bakerloo station first, followed by the Circle Line station because the distance between the westbound Bakerloo line platform and the eastbound Circle Line platform was shorter than the other way round. It also made for easier connections at Baker Street.

2) You may not have picked the best times - for example, Circle Line trains are every 10 minutes, Bakerloo Line trains are every three. So a change from the Circle to the Bakerloo can have a wait of 0,1,or 2 minutes depending on which Circle Line train you chose. For my Bottle Challenge last weekend, I just missed the train I intended to start on,and had to wait half an hour for another one which made optimal timing. Times may not even be the same from one hour to the next!

I have managed Farringdon to Warren Street several times in around 47 minutes while merely walking briskly and only breaking into last-moment sprints when doors are about to close. I - well, one - could easily get under 40 with some serious running. I'm very happy to do it in fewer minutes than my age in years ! This has been after work (wearing a suit !) during the evening rush hour and I have typically endured a few missed trains due to crowds or having to pause to use contactless readers - the shoulders of the peak are probably better for high frequency but slightly less crowding. I'll probably try the different central London ending options at some point - Warren Street is primarily for the lazy ease of interchange from the Bakerloo at Oxford Circus for the final stretch using one particular route. Missing a train isn't necessarily the end of the world if you need to be at the other end of the platform and can stroll there in comfort before the next train arrives within a few moments rather than fighting the disembarking masses on the first one at the next station. The Drain is an inevitable pain, but only really annoying if crowds mean you are badly positioned for arrival at Waterloo because of regulars dominating the best positions at Bank - the rush hour frequency is actually surprisingly good. Getting down to the Jubilee at Westminster is an annoyingly long trek but I haven't tried alternatives. Green Park is a nuisance to some degree regardless of route. I tend to get the northern sub-surface hat-trick out of the way from Farringdon, but physically get on the first train at KXSP because of greater confidence in seeing the third train indicated before starting. The elapsed time for the sequential hat-trick isn't ideal because of the minimum sequential gaps. I have wondered about leaving the Circle until later (with consequent route implications) and also had one lucky early trial (rather than a serious attempt) starting from Moorgate to Barbican and crossing over to get the remaining pair back to Liverpool Street : crossing the bridge effectively saved one train interval compared to travelling sequentially but is obviously less guaranteed. There's also the potential for only going as far as Moorgate before heading to Bank and picking up the Central later, but that introduces other complexities. Incidentally, I am merely an enthusiastic amateur and the others here will be able to provide far more professional advice !