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This DLR train terminates at Charing Cross
Posted: 03 Mar 2006, 20:02
by moley
From my blog entry of Tuesday:
Following an enlightening conversation today, it turns out that there are semi-advanced plans for the Docklands Light Railway to continue from Bank onto a new terminal at Charing Cross.
The new terminal would utilise the existing disussed Jubilee line platforms at Charing Cross, although new works would be required to cut the link to Green Park. This is seen as an ideal use of the platforms and infastructure which is currently sitting idle all bar a couple of empty stock turns into from Green Park each day.
From Charing Cross, the route would take the DLR along the existing over-run tunnels (after a resizing and resigalling exercise has been undertaken) towards Aldwych and would then follow Fleet Street before sweeping to the south of St Paul’s Cathederal and north of Mansion House station before finally connecting to the existing DLR network at Bank with a realigned platform.
A new interchange would be created with the City Thameslink station and there would be new life given to Aldwych station with another interchange created and the single train shuttle to Holborn reopened. It is hoped that those coming into Docklands via Thameslink and DLR will then change at City Thameslink rather than join the Northern Line to Bank. Currently the Northern Line from London Bridge up to Kings Cross along with the interchange at Bank is at near capacity at peak hours and needs dealine with soon. It is also hoped that passengers from Waterloo will consider taking the Bakerloo/Northern line to Charing Cross to connect with the DLR.
Will it happen? Well, the infastructure is partly there and the DLR extension projects are one set of projects that seem to be being complete ahead of schedule, and on budget.
I have since noticed that there is a brief article in the March edition of Modern Railways magazine.
Edited to correct spelling errors that people keep pointing out
Posted: 03 Mar 2006, 21:55
by G Force
There would actually be quite a bit of rebuilding required at Charing X, as the platforms are designed for tube profile trains, and not DLR trains. So as to prevent the DLR trains becoming cabriolet, the platform would have to be shaved back and/or the track bed lowered. The overrun tunnels would also have to be rebuilt if they were to be taken over. This all makes it less attractive financially.
Also, who would actually use a DLR extension to get to Docklands from Charing X (which is presently served by NR, Bakerloo, and Northern)? NR users would be better off joining the Jubilee to Docklands at London Bridge. Northern Line users can join the Jubilee at Waterloo, or take the Bank branch and join the DLR at Bank or Jubilee at London Bridge. Bakerloo users can join the Jubilee to Docklands at Baker St or Waterloo.
It very much seems like a "lets run the DLR to any random disused station just for the sake of it" idea. I'm surprised the planners don't put in a few sharp bends and run it through Aldwych as well
Posted: 03 Mar 2006, 22:04
by moley
The chap who I was speaking to, who works for LU, suggested that adapting Charing Cross would be the easy bit. DLR trains don't have such rules regarding over-run tunnels undergound because of how the are controlled.
It is believed that a lot of people would use the DLR to Docklands from Charing Cross - currently alot of people take the Northern Line from Kings Cross or London Bridge to Bank to get the DLR (the latter don't take the Jubilee line because it is usually so packed by then). This would actually be a quicker route even though the distance travelled is longer apparently.
One of the big problems that this project is trying to overcome is overcrowding at Bank station. This option also allows users of the southern part of the Northern Line an easier route to the DLR.
There is no actual need for sharp bends to enable the route to interchange at Alwdych - trust me - I've seen the plans!!!
Posted: 03 Mar 2006, 22:24
by standclearofthedoors
There is no actual need for sharp bends to enable the route to interchange at Alwdych - trust me - I've seen the plans!!!
Can we?
See them I mean.
Posted: 04 Mar 2006, 10:13
by moley
I don't have them - the chap was working on them on the train.
Posted: 04 Mar 2006, 19:23
by G Force
moley wrote:The chap who I was speaking to, who works for LU, suggested that adapting Charing Cross would be the easy bit. DLR trains don't have such rules regarding over-run tunnels undergound because of how the are controlled.
I was referring to the Jubilee's overrun tunnels to the East of Charing X which would be taken over by the DLR. This also raises another issue, in that the Jubilee Line would loose a useful (and used surprisingly often) S-N reversing point removed.
It is believed that a lot of people would use the DLR to Docklands from Charing Cross - currently alot of people take the Northern Line from Kings Cross or London Bridge to Bank to get the DLR (the latter don't take the Jubilee line because it is usually so packed by then). This would actually be a quicker route even though the distance travelled is longer apparently.
I would have thought that serving an area which doesn't already have easy access to Canary Wharf such as Moorgate, Farringdon, Kings X or Euston would be a better, if more expensive option (as a whole new station(s) would have to be built). Mind you the two former station(s) should be served by Crossrail, if it ever gets built.
There is no actual need for sharp bends to enable the route to interchange at Alwdych - trust me - I've seen the plans!!!
Do you mean that the line will serve Aldwych? Sharp bends would only be needed if the DLR were to use the existing platforms, as the platforms are at approx 90degrees to the Jubilee's overrun tunnels.
By the way, whats the URL of your blog?
Posted: 04 Mar 2006, 20:25
by moley
No, as per my original post - Holborn would regain it's one train shuttle with Aldwych - and new platforms and interchange tunnels would be constructed at Aldwych for the DLR along with new lifts to the enlarged surface station entrance - it appears that the DLR could provide the extra passenger numbers to justify Aldwych being open.
Posted: 04 Mar 2006, 20:53
by G Force
moley wrote:No, as per my original post - Holborn would regain it's one train shuttle with Aldwych - and new platforms and interchange tunnels would be constructed at Aldwych for the DLR along with new lifts to the enlarged surface station entrance - it appears that the DLR could provide the extra passenger numbers to justify Aldwych being open.
Sorry, I didn't read your original post properly. City Thameslink seems like a very good choice of interchange station. Not too sure if a Aldwych to Docklands link would be of any particular use though. Given that the end of the DLRs headshunt is pointing NW, I'm surprised that a S of St Paul's route has been looked at, as it would require rebuilding work at Bank. This would put the cost of the line up considerably, as well as possibly closing Bank for some time. Surely routing the line to the N of St Paul's would be cheaper and less disruptive?
Posted: 05 Mar 2006, 00:24
by moley
From memory it had something to do with deeper tunnels being required to cross the route of the central line twice and the disire not to impeed the route of Crossrail 1.
I'm told that most of the work at Bank can be done without any actual closing of the station. It would only be the creation of the links to the new route that would require severing the link. This would be done primarilly at weekends when the DLR is comparitively less busy.
Believe it or not, I'm told that consideration was given to diverting the DLR to Waterloo by enlarging the existing W&C line tunnels however there was 'significant' opposition to the 16 month closure of the line that would have been required - which seems ironic now that it will close for three months anyway!
One project that has yet to be announced is the Bank station upgrade project - this is along similar lines to the proposed Victoria Station upgrade but would not take place until after Victoria is finished.
Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 19:57
by Root
Three months is quite different from sixteen though!
I think it'd at least be useful to have City Thameslink connected to some other line - it seems strange to have a national rail station in zone 1 with no interchange. I might use it occasionally, but whenever I'm using Thameslink (going to or coming back from Brighton, where my girlfriend is at Uni), I change at London Bridge and get the Jubilee line from there. I have a feeling one of the reasons that London Bridge is crowded is because lots of Thameslink users have the same thinking as me - the train crawls exasperatingly slowly through central London, whereas the tube is regular and a lot quicker through the same area, so it's easier to get off as soon as the train arrives in central London - London Bridge.
I don't mind if they want to build it. In my opinion, all new lines are good, as they hopefully make travel easier and quicker with less interchange. Geez, I sound like I work for the Mayor.
Posted: 11 Mar 2006, 17:08
by The JLE
Why not route is as follow:
Bank (start)
Station X (I don't know the street name... but somewhere on the line Mansion house <> St. Paul's
City Thameslink
Charing Cross
DLR to Charing Cross
Posted: 02 Feb 2007, 17:38
by jn
Posted: 02 Feb 2007, 22:19
by CrunchySaviour
Only eleven months since the last post here!
Re: DLR to Charing Cross
Posted: 04 Feb 2007, 10:37
by tubeguru
Are you one of those kids from that new DLR forum thingy which I'm banned from?
Posted: 04 Feb 2007, 12:04
by sweek
It's a relatively useful route. I think what G Force has been saying about people being able to catch the Jubilee and then switch to another also shows another reason why this should be built: the Jubilee is very congested between Canary Wharf and Waterloo, and it could relieve some pressure of that.
It should be relatively cheap with quite a bit of work already done, and provide many people with simpler and less connections for their journey.
I was thinking of how you could extend the route even further on from there, going to Green Park - some stops on the way - Kensington Olympia, Shepherd's Bush and from there on replace the West London Tram scheme with this.
