How much should a support team be allowed to do? - LOCKED

[editorsfoot]

Is this not all getting a bit silly now? Peoples opinions are being made out to be representative of the entire group, rather than individual opinion.

The post above was listed as 'deleted' when I wrote my post!

[tubeguru]

I can lock the thread if people agree that we shouldn't continue discussing it.

[hwolge]

I don't think we should block threads just because someone says they think the topic is covered.

Anyway, I'd like to comment on the poll result. At least 23 people has taken the poll and a majority clearly thinks that support teams shouldn't hold doors. To me it's obvious that it would be better if Guinness somehow ruled on this - not that I think it will ever happen. I also believe that everyone here would abide by any rules Guinness might set, as well as trusting anyone else to do the same!

[joy54]

We don't know who has taken this poll, if it was alot of people who have only taken part in alternative challenges or those like sweek who are just the general public it would not allow them to make an informed decision having never been on a GWR attempt themselves. This poll cannot be taken as representitive of those making GWR attempts.

[Barton Blue]

When this thread started, i did say in a posting that it is a very emotive subject, and so it has turned out to be!! From my own point of view, the holding of doors is wrong and should not be condoned. I had also hoped that, as is the case in the Announcements Section, the site moderators would have stepped in to say that this site does not condone any unlawful act, (including the holding of doors). The lack of response is disappointing.
At the end of the day, we should all set out on any challenge to abide by the rules and bylaws of the Underground. What you actually do in reality will be up to individuals and their conciences, but don't let a few "over zealous" actions lead to a complete ban on challenging. Please don't annoy the hand that feeds us in other words!!

[joy54]

Can this thread just be locked now I think the same points are being raised over and over again and there is no point replying to a point already raised?

[sweek]

Can this thread just be locked now I think the same points are being raised over and over again and there is no point replying to a point already raised?

Just because a number of people don't agree with you doesn't mean a thread should be closed! There are still very valuable contributions being made every day.

[joy54]

Well if you want me to reply saying that the challenge has gone on for 50 years with people holding doors and running in the underground (both breaking LU rules) with absolutely no complaints from TfL or GWR then fine. I think that rather than TfL banning the record when people are holding doors for 30 seconds, that if Guinness are pestered with people emailing them complaining about people holding doors- not been done by any member of the public, they are likely to think with all the other changes having to be made to this record every couple of months that it is not viable to be kept.

[jonny]

Well if you want me to reply saying that the challenge has gone on for 50 years with people holding doors and running in the underground (both breaking LU rules) with absolutely no complaints from TfL or GWR then fine. I think that rather than TfL banning the record when people are holding doors for 30 seconds, that if Guinness are pestered with people emailing them complaining about people holding doors- not been done by any member of the public, they are likely to think with all the other changes having to be made to this record every couple of months that it is not viable to be kept.

Maybe I'm misreading that, but I can't quite see your point.

What is clear, however, is that (though the occasional new point is being raised) the discussion is pretty much going round in circles. Although I fundamentally disagree with joy54 on this topic I therefore agree that the thread should be closed.

[Soup Dragon]

I think what Steven is trying to say is that if various people start bombarding Guinness with requests to clarify and/or change the rules, then Guinness may well just say they can't be bothered with all the hassle and scrap the record altogether.

The only part of the rules that come anywhere near to scratching the surface of this question are in section 2 of the general Guinness rules:

2. Safety
2.1 You acknowledge that the Record Attempt (even when conducted in accordance
with the Guidelines and any safety advice as may be received by you from time to time)
may be dangerous to you and others and you will be entirely responsible, at all stages of
the Record Attempt for:
(a) deciding whether or not to proceed with;
and
(b) all safety aspects in relation to the preparation for and/or the undertaking
of the Record Attempt.
2.2 You will, at your sole expense, take all appropriate professional safety advice in
relation to all aspects of risk and safety connected with the Record Attempt including, but
not limited to:
(a) identifying any possible risks to yourself, other participants or spectators;
and
(b) identifying and obtaining all medical and other resources that should be
readily accessible at the place of the Record Attempt and you will take all necessary
precautions and measures either identified in such advice or in accordance with health
and safety guidelines issued from time to time by any relevant person, body or authority.
2.3 Except where arising out of its own negligence, GWR shall have no responsibility for
the safety of any part of the Record Attempt and shall not be liable to you or your
personal representatives for any loss, damage or injury to yourself or your property in
connection with the Record Attempt.
2.4 Any safety advice provided to you by GWR will be by way of example only, nonexhaustive
and will in no way detract from your responsibilities set out in paragraph 2.1
of these Terms and Conditions.
2.5 Any Guidelines sent to you by GWR will merely contain a definition of the record that
you will be attempting and are in no way intended to provide any kind of safety advice or
be construed as providing any comfort to you that the Record Attempt is free from risk.

[tubeguru]

Of course, if you're that worried about Guinness just ditching the record, what's wrong with finding other organisations that "unofficially" verify records?

After all, who are Guinness to declare themselves the sole adjudicators of world records? They've kind of fallen into this self-appointed role over a period of several decades. I suppose most people just want the prestige of a GUINNESS world record.

Are people saying that if Guinness ditched the record they wouldn't want to try for it?

[mullardo]

Of course, if you're that worried about Guinness just ditching the record, what's wrong with finding other organisations that "unofficially" verify records?

After all, who are Guinness to declare themselves the sole adjudicators of world records? They've kind of fallen into this self-appointed role over a period of several decades. I suppose most people just want the prestige of a GUINNESS world record.

I nominate you, tubeguru, the person i want to varify records. As long as I get my tubeguru world record than i will be fine.

[tubeguru]

Don't look at me!

There's no way I have enough time to adjudicate you lot!

[mikehhh]

Taking a look at the Guiness rules, they specify "To `visit' a station, you must arrive and/or depart by an underground train in normal public service"

Surely, somebody acting on behalf of the team by holding the doors - for any period - means that the 'normal public service' requirement is not met?

[tubeguru]

You're trying to twist the wording of the rules to fit the argument there.

"Normal public sevice" means the train is in public service and is not a staff special or engineering train or the such. Holding the doors does not stop the train being in normal public service.

Don't you mean "normal operation" is lost as opposed to "normal public service"?