tubechallenge.com

For what it's worth - the current change is pencilled in for 12 December 2010. This is subject to a number of provisos including having the full fleet of trains for the Victoria line service in use by the end of 2009.

As the old trains are removed from the Victoria line, they will be refurbished and then almalgamated within an existing bakerloo line train.

What is still being discussed is whether they should raise the track bed to make it disability friendly.

Starkey7 wrote:Why can't Watford Junction be part of the thing?

Probably has something to do with all the other train companies that call at Watford Junction that want to protect their revenue.

sweek wrote:

Starkey7 wrote:Why can't Watford Junction be part of the thing?

Probably has something to do with all the other train companies that call at Watford Junction that want to protect their revenue.

But surely wouldn't it be in their interest to make it easy for people to get there, so they can make money from people getting connecting trains from there?

My guess (although I know nothing about how these things work) would be that the cost of using the platforms was too high to be covered by the standard Oyster fare possibly? So they have to charge more?

Or is it ownership of the station that makes a difference or am I talking out of my backside as usual?

I'd guess it'll be to do with ownership of the station. Presumably they'll have gained control of the intermediate stations since they appear to only serve Overground services, but Watford Junction is a different matter. Presumably.

Looks like a fast train to Bushey, and then one stop to Watford High Street then for anyone heading up in that direction!

London Underground already use stations belonging to other Rail companies (eg Richmond, Kew Gardens, Gunnersbury, and stations up the Bakerloo Line).

Currently, I would presume the ticket from Watford Junction to London (Euston) is priced for a London Midland (semi)fast service (being that you are not allowed to get on a London-bound Virgin Train from Watford).

If the fare zones were extended to Watford then I believe that due to the rules, trains from Watford to Euston could be boarded on a Zone 1 - 9 Travelcard. Whilst the holders of the West Midlands Rail franchise could still sell their tickets, the chances are that the London Travelcard tickets would be cheaper and people would go for them. And the holders of the WM franchise would have no control over this ticket.

Just my view on things anyway.

Starkey7 wrote:Looks like a fast train to Bushey, and then one stop to Watford High Street then for anyone heading up in that direction!

Are the fast trains up to there run by the Overground? I went up there the other day (as part of my mission to visit all of the open stations on the current map. Only ten left!) and going up was fine, but on the way down I accidentally got in a fast train to Euston and it didn't have any Overground branding on. I didn't look for who it was operated by though. And it may have just been a train they'd not got round to rebranding yet.

jonny, I suspect you're right with that.

London Midland does accept PAYG on their trains between Watford and Euston now, so it probably has something to do with Virgin.

Virgin don't allow you to board Londonbound trains at Watford anyway.

This is indeed protecting revenues.

Otherwise you could travel Manchester-Watford with Virgin and then swap to London Overground on a travel card and, from memory, save yourself a small fortune.

moley wrote:Otherwise you could travel Manchester-Watford with Virgin and then swap to London Overground on a travel card and, from memory, save yourself a small fortune.

I've just looked at prices though, and a Saver Single on a Virgin Train from Manchester to Watford Junction would be £58.70, and a Saver Single on the same train from Manchester to Euston would be (oddly) £58.50.

Similarly, why can't one alight at Watford Junction when travelling north? Is there someone on the platform telling you to get back on the train?

Presumably if they found you on a northbound Virgin train with a ticket to Watford Junction, the inspector would claim you didn't have a valid ticket for that train?

I can't think of the top of my head what the tickets prices are based on - it might be standard day singles.

And yes, if you got on at Euston with a ticket to Watford junction you would be charged a single to the first set down point - which could be quite a way.