South London Challenge

[jbom1]

You couldn't use Southern as they don't use the same tracks or the same platform at Clapham Junction, they use 16/17 depending on direction and LO use 2, I think LO only for this challenge!

This is an interesting one. It's generally accepted that one may use LO instead of the District Line between Gunnersbury & Richmond on a GWR since they share tracks. However, they generally use different platforms at Richmond (3 & 4 for LO, 5, 6 & 7 for the District Line).

[jonny]

But if Southern and LO use different tracks throughout (as Steven's post implies), then doesn't that invalidate your argument?

I'm not sure.

[dudey]

But if Southern and LO use different tracks throughout (as Steven's post implies), then doesn't that invalidate your argument?

I'm not sure.

i have absolutely no personal experience of the Clapham Junction WLL arrangement, but if what joy54 says is true about the platforms being at opposite sides of the station, then my view of it from looking at the track arrangement on google earth is that each side has it's own curve round to the WLL. One side (i don't know which is which) has a dive under that goes under the mainline and becomes the WLL and it is then joined by the curve from the opposite side of Clapham Junction. So yes, the two different services do use different track, but i think you're being rather fussy to say you can only use LO, since the journey time is no different, and none of the track is owned by tfl anyway. It would be a pain for everyone if we could only use LO because the service is crap on its own!

[jbom1]

I think Dudey's interpretation of the layout is correct. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_London_Line

Thinking in the southbound direction, LO and Southern share the whole line as far as the approach to Clapham Junction. After this point (Latchmere Junctions), Southern trains pass under the various lines out of Waterloo and join the lines from Victoria, ending up at the southernmost end of the station (hence Platforms 16/17, depending on the direction). LO trains use a chord line that brings them in to Platform 2 at the northenmost end of the station.

Although I accept that the length of non-shared track is longer than at Richmond, I personally would suggest that one should be allowed to use Southern instead of LO, particularly since the train frequencies are not great.

[jonny]

So am I right in thinking from that the lines only split for the station itself? But because the station is large, they have to split rather earlier than normal.

In that case, it seems to me that allowing Southern services in the challenge would be the consistent way of doing it. And you know how much I love consistency.

[joy54]

It is alot longer than Richmond and the lines at Richmond are parallel to those on the District Line, the Southern trains are NOT on the Tube Map whereas LO is and so is the LO trains on the Richmond branch.

[jonny]

Hmm. There are many arguments for and against.

It is alot longer than Richmond and the lines at Richmond are parallel to those on the District Line...

I don't personally consider that relevant. Surely the only reason that the separation is longer is because the station itself is larger and thus requires a longer separation - the operational intent (for want of a better word) of separating the lines identical to that at Richmond.

...the Southern trains are NOT on the Tube Map whereas LO is and so is the LO trains on the Richmond branch.

That is an interesting point. I do wonder whether the Guinness rule was based on that, or based on something utterly different. I suspect that the Guinness rule was NOT based on that because they always allowed H&W to be done by Silverlink even before those services appeared on the map.

If we are to be consistent with GWR rulings in our alternative challenges then I would say you could use Southern, however it is quite feasible to suggest that we may like to ignore GWR rulings on this occasion for the creation of our own challenge.

[dudey]

So would anyone be up for giving the SLAM a go? I'll have a look through the engineering timetable and perhaps we could go out and try it on a suitable Saturday soon? Heck, since we're in the habit of making events out of this stuff, and not many are likely to try this, let's call it the "SLAM World Championships"!

Watch this space...

[dudey]

I'm up for it, but would like it to be the weekend after Bank Holiday if possible...

That wouldn't really suit me, it's my town's annual hop festival (read: piss-up). It's the one weekend of the year it's worth being here! Any fans of Shepherd Neame's fine brews (Spitfire, MasterBrew, Bishops Finger) should come down!

[/kent tourist rep]

[Soup Dragon]

I would be up for a SLAM Saturday but it would have to be September for me. The beer festival sounds good hopefully I can make that as well.

[Going Underground]

Like the sound of the beer festival more than the slam the way I am feeling at the moment...

Awaiting confirmation of the date.......

[editorsfoot]

For the hop festival check this link out

http://www.swale.gov.uk/hopfestival/

don't forget to wave at me when you go through Chatham

[dudey]

For the hop festival check this link out

http://www.swale.gov.uk/hopfestival/

don't forget to wave at me when you go through Chatham

Actually, they run a special steam engine down from Victoria that weekend, I'm usually there to watch it come in.

http://www.shepherd-neame.co.uk/tour/train.html

[dudey]

Ok, so i've been trying to negotiate all the various engineering works timetables for September and it seems the whole month is a bit of a nightmare.

London Underground closures prevent anything happening on the 13th and 20th, and then Saturday 6th is also out because of DLR being closed between Lewisham and Island Gardens. That just leaves Saturday 27th September which seems clean at the moment, however it says that on the DLR that day that "Services will be disrupted across all routes except Canning Town to KGV/Beckton". Normally "Services will be disrupted" it means that it will be shut, but they can't be closing down the entire network, can they? If they are however, that day is also out and the SLAM will be impossible to complete on any Saturday in September!

Any thoughts?

[greatkingrat]

It appears they are closing down the entire network that Saturday!

http://improvements.dlr.co.uk/disruptio ... .asp?id=42